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10 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript. The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription. If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators. Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
11 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript.
The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription.
If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators.
Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
12 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript.
The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription.
If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators.
Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
13 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript.
The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription.
If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators.
Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
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17 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript.
The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription.
If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators.
Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
18 1 Joseph allowed Martin Harris to take the first 116 Book of Mormon manuscript pages to show Martin's wife, Lucy. They were subsequently lost (presumably destroyed by Lucy). These verses indicate that the manuscript was obtained by wicked men who were going to fool people by altering the words on the manuscript.
The problem is that this was written by the Hand of Martin Harris and apparently in ink. Alterations of such a manuscript would have been easily detected. The writing could not be erased without leaving a trace of erasure. New words inserted would have been obvious, and would have to copy Martin's penmanship well or be detected as fraudulent alteration even without the fact of being obvious insertions. Any differences in the penmanship of the altered items would stand out even more if only present where certain words were rubbed out or inserted above the original transcription.
If there really had been an attempt to alter the manuscript to try to thwart the work of God, the situation could have been used to expose the would-be perpetrators.
Furthermore, verses 17-18 explain that God provided a way for the content of the lost 116 pages to be provided by translation from the plates of Nephi. However, if the wicked men could alter the words to disagree with an exact duplicate of the translation of the Book of Lehi, then they could have changed the words to contradict the asserted facts in the translation Joseph produced from the Book of Nephi instead. These wicked men could have made the 116-page manuscript disagree with the manuscript Joseph replaced it with, yet the manuscript never turned up again, altered or otherwise. Some hypothesize that what actually happened is that Lucy Harris or someone else merely destroyed the manuscript and that there was no conspiracy to alter the pages. Isn't that a more parsimonious explanation? | |
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28 1 This verse tells us that even if you lie because you suppose someone else lies, your lying is not justified. Let's use this to measure some of the actions of the Church and its leaders. “Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband” (1835 Doctrine and Covenants denies polygamy—D&C 101). This was published in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants in spite of the fact that Joseph Smith and others were practicing polygamy under Joseph’s direction at the time. When asked by Time Magazine whether the Church still stands by the teaching that God the Father was once a man, President Hinckley said, “I don’t know that we teach it” (Time article, “Kingdom Come” by David Van Biema), in spite of the fact that it was being taught in classes and published in manuals current at the time. Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland got caught in a fib starting about 1:21 into this video “I think in the past there was a tendency to keep a lot of the [Church historical] records closed or at least not give access to information. But the world has changed in the last generation—with the access to information on the Internet, we can’t continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to be more open” (Elder Steven E. Snow, Church Historian and Recorder at Q&A with Elder Steven Snow). “There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.” (Gospel Principles Chapter 31: Honesty) | |
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32 1 Imagine if a criminal said that anyone who does not believe their side of the story is under the influence of Satan. Imagine if an authoritarian dictator said that anyone who did not believe their propaganda was deceived by Satan. This is a fearmongering tactic to prevent people from deciding things for themselves in a rational manner. | |
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38 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time? As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"(Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient. cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question: "This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
39 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
40 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
41 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
42 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
43 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
44 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
45 1 God explains that He anticipated the lost 116 pages and provided other plates with the relevant events so Joseph could provide the necessary elements to begin with. So, in spite of the plates being difficult to engrave (see Jacob 4:1), God has his prophets create redundant information on the plates so Joseph could translate the events and information God wanted in the Book of Mormon. Remember that Joseph didn't even use the plates to perform his translation, that sometimes the plates were not even present in the room. Instead, he placed a rock in a hat and words appeared on the rock that Joseph dictated to his scribes (www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng). Couldn't Joseph have just received the relevant information through the rock without God having his prophets create redundant information on the plates at a huge investment of time?
As Redditor HeberGayGrant observes, "Makes me wonder why God didn't send an angel with a sword to stop Lucy Harris"([Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng)). Laban was slaughtered for less." This is of course sarcastically making the contrast to Joseph's account that an angel with a drawn sword threatened his life more than once when he claims he did not want to participate in polygamy. God's intervention or lack of intervention seems amazingly convenient.
cronos844Confucian in the same thread has another good rhetorical question:
"This brings up another question: why didn't god just instruct Joseph to create a copy of the translation already done?" As I asked above, why would God require such a time-consuming solution of having prophets engrave redundant records on metal plates when He could have commanded a modern prophet to have a scribe pen an extra 116 pages in a fraction of the time? | |
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47 1 This explains that God would bring the gospel as taught in the Book of Mormon to the Lamanites. Past LDS leaders and various references in the Doctrine and Covenants make it clear that the Lamanites Moroni is writing to were the Native Americans (as well as Pacific Islanders according to the leaders). Now, LDS leaders won't tell us who the Lamanites are. Just who did these ancient prophets hope the Book of Mormon might come unto? (see also “Who is Moroni writing to?” ) | |
48 1 This explains that God would bring the gospel as taught in the Book of Mormon to the Lamanites. Past LDS leaders and various references in the Doctrine and Covenants make it clear that the Lamanites Moroni is writing to were the Native Americans (as well as Pacific Islanders according to the leaders). Now, LDS leaders won't tell us who the Lamanites are. Just who did these ancient prophets hope the Book of Mormon might come unto? (see also [“Who is Moroni writing to?”](https://a-bom.github.io/comefollowme47.html) ) | |
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56 But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil--yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center. | 56 |
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